tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post6014426672142576849..comments2024-03-09T03:20:20.004-05:00Comments on Tenured Radical: A Lesson From Minnesota Fats: Bernie Madoff Hustled the Hustlers, But Are They Victims?Tenured Radicalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-49239104699294244752009-03-26T19:59:00.000-05:002009-03-26T19:59:00.000-05:00i think youve mischaracterized madoff's victims. a...i think youve mischaracterized madoff's victims. almost none were part of the hamptonite superrich. madoff, because he refused to answer questions, had a very hard time getting wall streeters to invest in him. most of his money came from privileged but hardly hyper-elite, working jewish people. i think the tenor of your piece would have been different had you taken into account who his victims really were. or maybe you just hate the professional upper class as much as the hedge fund post-class class.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-88707371370935923482009-03-16T16:17:00.000-05:002009-03-16T16:17:00.000-05:00Thank you! Its a perfect post! Because this post d...Thank you! Its a perfect post! <BR/><BR/>Because this post describes what is going around the country right now... a whole of liberals, neo-liberals, libertarians, conservatives, neo-conservatives, everyone of us crying out: "It isn't fair!" <BR/><BR/>The Madoff investors will not get their money back, the banking industry is going to loose more money and be nationalized later rather than sooner, we are all going to consume a lot less in the next decade (no matter what our class). The sooner we can get over the 'its not fair' aspects of this depression, the sooner we can stand up, dust our selves off and take some collective action to make things better for everyone. <BR/><BR/>Thanks TR!Matt Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14136331581631099471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-92119476830773036952009-03-16T13:18:00.000-05:002009-03-16T13:18:00.000-05:00"It is much harder to imagine how a society benefi..."It is much harder to imagine how a society benefits from preserving the right to plastic surgery, the Hamptons, Whole Foods and Deerfield Academy."<BR/><BR/>But but but--Tenured Radical, society benefits by being able to behold my physical perfection and that of my organically-fed family! It benefits because my brilliant children (if they exist) at Deerfield won't make all of your public school children embarassed or self-conscious about their lack of perfection and brilliance. And you all benefit by my family spending the summer in the Hamptons (while you are not) because you're not subjected to my family's whining for 2-1/2 months!<BR/><BR/>See, everybody wins.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-42199645684745319702009-03-16T10:42:00.000-05:002009-03-16T10:42:00.000-05:00Totally not the point: damn, Paul Newman was beaut...Totally not the point: damn, Paul Newman was beautiful back in the day!Clio Bluestockinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14285486658334618048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-58306484552202347102009-03-16T07:50:00.000-05:002009-03-16T07:50:00.000-05:00Didn't he pay out a fair bit of money (in supposed...Didn't he pay out a fair bit of money (in supposed earnings) to at least some of the people? Are they going to give it all back?<BR/><BR/>I'm afraid I have relatively little sympathy for folks with lots of money who get screwed by their greed, maybe because I think they're probably pretty sophisticated about money. But why should I have more sympathy for middle class folks who get caught in schemes?<BR/><BR/>Your second and third rules are what my family emphasized, with the difference that one should be able to explain the investment strategy after reading up/listening to the manager. <BR/><BR/>If we all practiced number 3, we'd get in lots less trouble. The thing is, the people who didn't practice that got a lot of other folks in trouble (through the mortgage practices and all).Bardiachttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11846065504793800266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-41348901411384494262009-03-15T14:01:00.000-05:002009-03-15T14:01:00.000-05:00Fie: I imagine they will file a class action suit,...<B>Fie:</B> I imagine they will file a class action suit, and my guess is that the SEC will be enjoined in the suit. But the losers aren't going to get much back from the Madoffs, I'm afraid. So far the forensic accountants (my favorite profession, bar none) have found $83 million, and the total losses are in the billions. <BR/><BR/><B>Jack:</B>Long time no hear! Hope you are well. In answer to your question, I think that it is a truly knotty problem what one ought to do with those home owners, but I do think that the situations are different, both in the scale of the losses, the limits of who will, in end be harmed by Madoff (limited to investors, more or less) and who will be harmed by a collapse in the mortgage banking system (everyone); and impact each set of losses has on the whole economic system. Bailing out homeowner -- or some category of homeowner (as opposed to people who were laundering money or purely speculating)may be necessary to actually keep from privatizing the entire banking system, which I would bet both you and I think is a bad thing. And of course, homelessness on a grand scale creates other galloping social and economic problems too: having acres of empty houses and families living in motels at government expense sounds like a worse idea to me than propping up the homeowners who are capable of surviving. I did hear the other day that 60% of the people who are rescued from foreclosure go into foreclosure again -- so I repeat, it's a knotty problem.Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-8455924598570186782009-03-15T12:49:00.000-05:002009-03-15T12:49:00.000-05:00TR, what would you say about the folks who took on...TR, what would you say about the folks who took on too much home using adjustable rate mortgages, gambling that their homes would rise in value enough to keep them above water, but who are now drowning due to the sinking housing market? Do they also deserve to sink? Is a person who knowingly took on a $400000 mortgage on a $40000 salary and is now floundering a victim? Does he/she deserve to be bailed out?JackDanielsBlackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285871354441074406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-72728206516958130702009-03-15T12:28:00.000-05:002009-03-15T12:28:00.000-05:00Some brilliant insights here. I particularly like ...Some brilliant insights here. I particularly like the fact that you point out that American "old money" is blood money. I guess I didn't really think about it that way before, but it's so true. <BR/><BR/>On another note... can't the people who invested with Madoff file a civil class action suit and get a little bit of their money back? Admittedly, I have not been following this story closely, so maybe Madoff is broke too and it wouldn't matter if he were sued by the people he scammed. But that course of action (suing Madoff) seems far more logical to me than asking the government for a bail out. Heck, if the government is going to start bailing out all gambling losses, I'll start hitting a casino next weekend.Fie upon this quiet life!https://www.blogger.com/profile/12047096700049201873noreply@blogger.com