tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post5338622049339648115..comments2024-03-09T03:20:20.004-05:00Comments on Tenured Radical: When Life Gives You A Sommers, Make Sommers-adeTenured Radicalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-16462179394461549862009-08-22T22:21:02.096-05:002009-08-22T22:21:02.096-05:00I read the Chronicle piece plus the string of comm...I read the Chronicle piece plus the string of comments. I think Christina Hoff Sommer's point is supported by the quality of the comments here and in many of the comments in the Chronicle. My reading is that Dr. Lemon simply had to acknowledge the two issues and correct the mis-statements. (Parentetically, if they were inconsequential why the fuss?) Her weak effort to defend her position on the Rule of Thumb - citing Plutarch as evidence of Romulus' existence - and her mis-reading of a simple statistical ratio certainly raises questions about her critical thinking skills.berniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17098622568174375997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-75685597380792606952009-08-20T15:13:21.179-05:002009-08-20T15:13:21.179-05:00"Faire de la bonne cuisine demande un certain..."Faire de la bonne cuisine demande un certain temps. Si on vous fait attendre, c'est pour mieux vous servir, et vous plaire."<br /><br />from the 1940 menu of Antoine's restaurant in New Orleans.<br /><br />I think this applies to writing as well as cooking. Julia Child would probably agree.JackDanielsBlackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285871354441074406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-73248063675481372312009-08-19T17:10:34.401-05:002009-08-19T17:10:34.401-05:00That must be painful, JDB. Je le regrette beaucou...That must be painful, JDB. <i> Je le regrette beaucoup que j'etait plus foue ce matin quand j'ai escrite.</i>Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-57140054844556306112009-08-19T11:39:46.146-05:002009-08-19T11:39:46.146-05:00TR, may I point out (as an MA in English from that...TR, may I point out (as an MA in English from that distinguished institution of higher learning, the University of Mississippi, that the first sentence in your refutation of mathprof is woefully lacking grammatically, syntactically, and logically. If you are going to argue, please don't adopt Palinesque sentence structure.JackDanielsBlackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285871354441074406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-14862721880921794812009-08-19T10:32:48.275-05:002009-08-19T10:32:48.275-05:00Mathprof:
Your points are illuminating, although ...Mathprof:<br /><br />Your points are illuminating, although what the substance of the difference is between a MOD study and a study funded by the MOD -- in other words, the person who wrote this article (and btw, it wasn't Lemon -- the book is a collection) seems to think that data is good, and Sommers does not dispute the data directly. She asserts it is false because the ownership of the data was misrepresented by mistake. But that doesn't prove that the data is wrong (even if it is!)<br /><br />Second, Lemon did fix some of the errors, but just because Sommers asserts something under dispute is an error, doesn't mean it is. Do the misreadings you have revealed in your comment make *you* a shoddy scholar? I think not. And Lemon is not a shoddy scholar either: there is a vast weight of evidence to argue that is not the case, and to assert this on the weight of a disagreement about an undocumented Roman king is idiotic. And by the way -- oral history tradition is not necessarily false or mythic. Sommers doesn't know crap-all about history and shouldn't claim she does.<br /><br />And frankly -- Sommers' point is that Lemon is an ideologue. I don't agree, but let's pretend she is: isn't the pot calling the kettle black here?Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-90114019375017056812009-08-18T12:52:43.662-05:002009-08-18T12:52:43.662-05:00TR
First of all there is a huge difference between...TR<br />First of all there is a huge difference between a study conducted by the March of Dimes and one conducted by someone else with partial funding from the MOD. If I do some research it is not an NSF research study even though the NSF funds my research.<br /><br />Second, Lemon was clearly in error regarding her "fact" that some large percent of ER visits by women are due to domestic violence. In fact it is some large percent of those women already at the ER for violence related injuries, a huge difference.<br /><br />As someone with no horse in this race so to speak, having read Sommer's initial Chronicle article and then the "debate" on the Chronicle, it is clear that Lemon is a shoddy scholar uninterested in fixing her mistakes.mathprofnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-16394588324446550482009-08-15T08:54:22.364-05:002009-08-15T08:54:22.364-05:00AndrewMc--she didn't a few years ago when I co...AndrewMc--she didn't a few years ago when I corresponded with her about the Berks, but that was before the publication of her Mary Todd Lincoln book. Maybe now she has a fraction of a publicist's time.Historicannhttp://historiann.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-29908792845721897882009-08-15T06:27:40.026-05:002009-08-15T06:27:40.026-05:00@Historiann: Catharine Clinton has a publicist, if...@Historiann: Catharine Clinton has a publicist, if not an outright assistant.AndrewMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08076067336411087037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-75803932516054859202009-08-14T16:43:29.812-05:002009-08-14T16:43:29.812-05:00Thanks for the update. AndrewMc and MT already sa...Thanks for the update. AndrewMc and MT already said what I was going to say, but I'll say them again: 1) your list of how-tos is exactly what was done to Michael Bellesiles. The underlying assumption throughout the Inquisition against him was that he was willfully lying, and that his scholarship was undertaken in bad faith, rather than that there were "disputable facts" at stake. I disagreed with Bellesiles' book, but I don't think he set out with evil in his heart to commit academic fraud.<br /><br />And, 2) Sommers has an assistant? I know of only ONE legitimate historian with an academic appointment who has an assistant. Absolutely everyone but one I dealt with for the Berks last time around answered her own e-mail, including Drew Faust. (This was before her elevation to the Presidency of Harvard, but still.)<br /><br />Love you, TR! Stay in touch!Historiannhttp://historiann.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-84054330766494685042009-08-14T16:22:12.792-05:002009-08-14T16:22:12.792-05:00TR, how many times are you going to rehash this? ...TR, how many times are you going to rehash this? Neither Lemmon nor Sommers has said anything new since the last time you did a post on this, and the comments were much the same as well. I would give my comments again, but what's the point?JackDanielsBlackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285871354441074406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-54745108696893062962009-08-14T15:35:18.140-05:002009-08-14T15:35:18.140-05:00Obviously, for Sommers the historicity of Romulus ...Obviously, for Sommers the historicity of Romulus is much more important than the history of legalized beatings of women.<br /><br />And, heck, the whole Mosaic law tradition can just get thrown out the window since I don't see any real proof that Moses ever existed. If anytime a historical error is committed in a legal judgement, law code or statute text, do violators get a "get out of jail free card"?Janicehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14093558563358431804noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-24088037380688194062009-08-14T12:34:35.633-05:002009-08-14T12:34:35.633-05:00Sommers gave a talk at our university about ten ye...Sommers gave a talk at our university about ten years ago (at the invitation of the local chapter of National Association of Scholars). When she started to make erroneous claims about the content of our courses, I gave her hell. Sounds like her "facts" are no better.Knitting Cliohttp://hmprescott.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-58341218066441926942009-08-14T12:28:24.557-05:002009-08-14T12:28:24.557-05:00Christina Hoff Sommers has an assistant?Christina Hoff Sommers has an assistant?MThttp://twitter.com/mattthomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-70892669411948781132009-08-14T11:30:31.202-05:002009-08-14T11:30:31.202-05:00As they say in NYC on WFAN, first time/long time.
...As they say in NYC on WFAN, first time/long time.<br /><br />It does seem that those on the right do a better job, perhaps, of marketing their own position, getting it on the news, etc.<br /><br />But the biggest issue is the one raised by TR: Summers is always focuses on diagnosis and not prescription, and more interested in policing feminism than in being a feminist, even by her own simplistic definitions. <br /><br />Thanks, TR, for the end-of-summertime thirst-quencher!<br /><br />For the record, she (CHS or TR) has never called me or emailed me. ;) I hope for the latter someday.Lancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07899035110186685734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-527280662849041922009-08-14T10:55:05.319-05:002009-08-14T10:55:05.319-05:00What I'd like to know is, why does The Chronic...What I'd like to know is, why does <i>The Chronicle</i> keep giving Sommers not just a platform, but also the last word? Her response to Lemmon's cogent and respectful rebuttal is the lamest bit of non-argument I've seen outside of an undergrad debate, but side-by-side in <i>The Chronicle</i> they're made to seem equally serious. I don't expect a nutjob ideologue like Sommers to play by standards of academic fairness, but why else does <i>The Chronicle</i> publish debates if not to mediate those standards? Boo on them.adamhennehttp://adamhenne.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-68673882703215788722009-08-14T08:51:50.833-05:002009-08-14T08:51:50.833-05:00What drives me nuts about Sommers is that she can ...What drives me nuts about Sommers is that she can take what is "true" -- the semi-mythical "rule of thumb", for instance -- and ignore its impact on women's lives. If we argue about the history of Rome in the 8th century BCE, we don't have to do anything about domestic violence today.Susanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09716705206734059708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-58739201493205068482009-08-14T05:54:12.059-05:002009-08-14T05:54:12.059-05:00This is what was done to Michael Bellesiles, and i...This is what was done to Michael Bellesiles, and in much the same way. <br /><br />Find someone with an agenda that runs counter to the author's, and nitpick the work to the point that you destroy hir career.<br /><br />The right is very good at this.AndrewMchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08076067336411087037noreply@blogger.com