tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post3638882085673182095..comments2024-03-09T03:20:20.004-05:00Comments on Tenured Radical: Puff The Magic Sociologist: Sudhir Venkatesh, Gang Leader For A Day, A Rogue Sociologist Takes To The StreetsTenured Radicalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-46565750727586769442011-06-16T15:58:01.655-05:002011-06-16T15:58:01.655-05:00There's an increasing trail of evidence that t...There's an increasing trail of evidence that there is no J.T. - he is a complete fabrication of Venkatesh's writing. A former cop in Chicago is writing a report on this at present, one that should be released by August 2011.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-42583117607031250642011-05-17T06:44:58.879-05:002011-05-17T06:44:58.879-05:00How sure are you that jealousy is the only issue? ...How sure are you that jealousy is the only issue? Take the ethical questions seriously before you publish on this model.Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-79983973440115136572011-05-16T20:59:12.376-05:002011-05-16T20:59:12.376-05:00To all those people who have left negative comment...To all those people who have left negative comments, I am sure you are just jealous of Venkatesh's achievements. He is a tenured full professor (endowed chair) at an Ivy League school and has a big international profile. He has just been named Academic Director of the Berlin School of Management's MBA program. He is well published and has made numerous documentaries. He makes the study of sociology accessible. If he was a dud, do you think the great William Julius Wilson would have sponsored him at U Chicago?Leenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-36769825914367531922011-04-14T19:12:05.333-05:002011-04-14T19:12:05.333-05:00I came across this post because I gave one of my c...I came across this post because I gave one of my classes an assignment to write a review of Off the Books (also by Venkatesh). I do this with any book I assign for review to catch plagiarism. I find your critque very unfair and uninformed. First, Gang Leader is not a scholarly book -- it is meant for a broader audience and is, in fact, a memoir. Second, if you had read American Project and Off the Books, you would clearly understand that Venkatesh's research is very real and methodologically sound. He made mistakes for sure, and I'd say perhaps there is some self-absorbed, instrumental, and ego stuff going on with Gang Leader. But I have no doubt that he spent a great deal of time in the Robert Taylor Homes, as well as in the nearby neighborhoods. Like his previous books, it is also well-written and conveys a clear story -- something that academics tend not to be very good at. I believe that this is way Gang Leader became a NYTIMES Best Seller. Lastly, if you think he didn't create lasting bonds with the residents you're wrong. He's still in contact with 200 families from Robert Taylor and continues to work with them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-43178127299171716652011-02-28T08:19:57.263-05:002011-02-28T08:19:57.263-05:00Thought I would turn you on to more bad research, ...Thought I would turn you on to more bad research, more potnetial harm by the infamous 'rougue sociologist.' The worst bit is how it has been taken up by news outlets and widely disseminated. <br /><br />http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_sextrade/all/1<br /><br />http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/02/27/2011-02-27_very_friendly__but_for_a_fee_hookers_flocking_to_facebook.htmlUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13193894830596716641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-28799108279337582162011-02-23T16:45:53.427-05:002011-02-23T16:45:53.427-05:00I just have one doubt, if he was truly worried abo...I just have one doubt, if he was truly worried about poverty in the U.S. in-spite of belonging to India why did not he work this 'hard' for Indian community and poverty back there? Whereas everyone knows India is third world country. Only 1 answer comes in my mind, after all this research he definitely achieved some academical prestige, fame,popularity and even the 'greens'. Did he really do anything new or just did the same things as other sociologists did? Did he follow a new way to do this? How much of his 'gain' really belongs or should go back to the community? People who took him inside their homes and made him feel as a part of their family and shared the sorrows and pain about one of the toughest time Chicago city has ever been through, he rat out on them for money, degree, fame was that very ethical of him? Even after seeing all this and making big bucks out of it a generous person would dedicate a part of it to the community did he do it? At the end this book really depressed me towards his attitude and insanity for using someone to whom he called 'friend' once.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12949712057635953470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-78742676859324399482010-10-26T01:20:33.320-05:002010-10-26T01:20:33.320-05:00Just stumbled across this thread. I assigned this...Just stumbled across this thread. I assigned this book to my undergraduates (100 level urban policy course) this semester, because I think it paints a plausible picture of the underground economy and the way communities can create quasi-governments when officials actors abandon them. <br /><br />I think your criticisms of his research practices are valid, but you don't address the substantive aspects of the book, which I think are quite strong. That said, I will definitely think twice before assigning this again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-8112259043989330962010-09-07T11:01:19.887-05:002010-09-07T11:01:19.887-05:00Your blog is really helps for my search and amazin...Your blog is really helps for my search and amazingly it was on my searching criteria.. Thanks a lot..Dissertation Writing Helphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07129216317804018856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-15745963200137386602010-04-30T12:54:05.339-05:002010-04-30T12:54:05.339-05:00Whenever i see the post like your's i feel tha...Whenever i see the post like your's i feel that there are still helpful people who share information for the help of others, it must be helpful for other's. thanx and good job.Buy Dissertationhttp://www.mastersdissertation.co.uk/buy_dissertation.htmnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-56505513994627184752009-09-11T13:20:32.434-05:002009-09-11T13:20:32.434-05:00Has anyone on this list read either "American...Has anyone on this list read either "American Project" or "Off the Books"? It seems horribly unfair to criticize the popularizing elements of a book (not enough references) which is clearly intended to be commercial, and not respond to his more scholarly works, which have many of the elements that are absent from Gang Leader.<br /><br />In terms of the ethics of the research, I think people are massively underestimating the difficulties of doing this kind of research. He made some mistakes, clearly, but at the end of the day, he went into dangerous situations, and got information, particularly about the inner dynamics of gang life, particularly with respect to payment, that is, to say the least, very rare in the subfield. It goes without saying that getting in with a gang is obviously not the same as going to hang out at a school or a doctor's office. He also was remarkably candid about the mistakes he made in Gang Leader, which is also to his credit. <br /><br />My own issues with his work, particularly American Project, is that the ethnographers are looking at the issue from the wrong end of the telescope -- he emphasizes local resilience of the housing project residents, when the big picture story is the declining political economy story well told by WJ Wilson and others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-54366482466709892762009-08-15T23:59:04.366-05:002009-08-15T23:59:04.366-05:00Idk how long it's been since the last comment ...Idk how long it's been since the last comment on this post, but I found it googling around trying to find Vanketesh's dissertation. I came across this book because it literally fell in my lap. I'm starting graduate studies in social word at the U of C in autumn, and they mailed me a copy of the book, along with an explanation and a couple of study questions for an event to be held during orientation week. (Sort of bums me out that this alumni connection is going to pad Vanketesh's pocket but in my own self serving manner, is encouraging for my own future alumni status).<br /><br />I'm nearly done with the book now and as it winds down I'm filled with such disgust that I can hardly force myself to finish it. The naive schtick quickly became apparent as a sympathy ploy, and many things seemed far too pat to be true, but his readiness to cast off these people he claimed to have meant so much to him once they've worn out their usefulness is sickening. I'm glad I came across this article and its comments because for a minute I couldn't quite pin down where the sinking feeling in my stomach was coming from.<br /><br />It doesn't become apparent until the final chapter that Vanketesh had become - perhaps gleefully so - one of the same corrupt bureaucratic figures that he railed against himself. There were little hints all the way through: characterizing JT as desperate for his scholarly validation, championing himself as saving Price's life (for dragging him into a lobby after he'd been shot in a knee), and the ubiquitous "why gee golly I just don't get it" attitude he displayed at every facet of poor community life, despite "studying" the tenants a good three or four years into his research. But it isn't until he's ready to write that big dissertation and wrap up his time in Chicago that he totally casts off these people who invited him into their lives, helped him secure his own fortune and even in many cases oversaw his personal safety. Maybe most disturbing is the candid honesty with which he reveals this. He revels in using these people, dismissing them, happily acknowledging the manipulative ways he convinced them to share the information he needed. <br /><br />I think this book is much more useful in the view of social work, a profession dedicated to helping and improving - not just reporting - the lives of its subjects. Not because it covers any ground that hasn't already been explored elsewhere (would this book even have any popularity in a post- The Wire world which, hey, did it about 20 times better?). But because it shows just how exploitative and self serving those professing to want to help can be. This book would be better served as a precautionary tale other than any legitimate or defining resource.girl xhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14435247433007229344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-91203243467331079982009-06-26T10:11:05.305-05:002009-06-26T10:11:05.305-05:00but there are always complexities, even to this st...but there are always complexities, even to this story. Act 3 of this This American Life episode: http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1265Arvind Venkataramanihttp://sensemaya.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-42197108933746400132009-06-05T22:30:36.073-05:002009-06-05T22:30:36.073-05:00Thank you so much for your review of Gang Leader F...Thank you so much for your review of Gang Leader For A Day and for your acknowledgment of the exploitation within. <br /><br />I finished the book last night and was left with a great sense of disgust. It seems incredibly obvious that Venkatesh exploited the residents of Robert Taylor to an extreme degree. Toward the end of the book, he seems to reference his exploitation but does so in a self-aggrandizing manner. He begins to call himself a "hustler", taking Ms. Bailey's hint that "we are all hustlers here". There are so, so many things wrong with his book. But here, we see one that book exploits and adds to the multiple instances of sexism. Throughout the book, he does not hold back to express dismay and discomfort with Ms. Bailey's exploitation of the Taylor residents for her own gain. Yet, when he finally recognizes (and proudly accepts) the reality that he has done the same, he doesn't use any of the ugly language he used to describe Ms. Bailey. Instead, he boastfully calls himself a hustler - as if to claim some sort of street cred. <br /><br />I didn't believe him every time he played dumb and expressed naive dismay over the consequences of his words and behavior. As a couple others have mentioned, I too found myself wondering if it was all true - or if Venkatesh took fictional liberties in an attempt to boost his career. <br /><br />Venkatesh mentions that JT is "meticulous" in his efforts to avoid leaving evidence trails. He cites JT's incredible memory and how he never writes anything down, choosing instead to memorize the pay rates and details of his several hundred gang employees. He also repeatedly mentions JT's paranoia. I find it hard to believe that with such meticulous thoughtfulness, and increasing paranoid, that JT would have allowed T-Bone to maintain a whole collection of notebooks detailing the gang's illegal activities and finances (especially once the RICO cases got heated). Adding to the fishiness of this scenario, is Venkatesh stating that T-Bone keeps his financial notebook on his person at all times. This is a huge contradiction to JT's obsessive dictatorship and rules about not carrying anything on person that would lead to arrest or lead back to JT. Fishy, I say. <br /><br />At best, it is a disgusting display of exploitation and blatant disregard for ethics. At worst, it is a self-aggrandizing tale based on the continued exploitation of poor people of color.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-23097301244571682362009-05-29T06:25:04.424-05:002009-05-29T06:25:04.424-05:00The author, Sudhir Venkatesh, describes his experi...The author, Sudhir Venkatesh, describes his experiences when researching gang and tenant life in Chicago.This book essentially describes how he managed to obtain the data in his research, and at the same time shows how the people (the gang members, the prostitutes, and the leaders etc.) lived in the projects.Amanda Crowehttp://www.asiarooms.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-16213786801675747592009-05-03T23:19:00.000-05:002009-05-03T23:19:00.000-05:00I have to agree with historiann. I think there is ...I have to agree with historiann. I think there is a bigger problem beyond the author's lack of ethical behavior. I simply don't think that much of it is true. I read it cover to cover and I could not help but question whether anyone in the academic or publishing industries bothered to check whether his story was true. I just find it too easy that T-Bone gave him a treasure trove of data just because the author was "interested in how we do things."LSaldananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-61519567994683704592009-04-22T15:09:00.000-05:002009-04-22T15:09:00.000-05:00The quote about how the book was "boring" is a rid...The quote about how the book was "boring" is a ridiculously stupid statement. If you read on after your whopping 50 pages... you would find that Sudhir Venkatesh put himself in danger every single time he ventured into the projects. you should surely rethink your academically profound comment. have you ever even read a book?studentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-40664024811298918692009-04-20T14:03:00.000-05:002009-04-20T14:03:00.000-05:00Nobody has really pointed out the biggest problem ...Nobody has really pointed out the biggest problem with this book, which is that it's deathly boring and unoriginal. I had to stop after 50 pages because of the jarring contrast between the author's perceptions of his own originality, daring, and flair, and his actual qualities. I wonder how many people have actually made it through the book? (And yes, I read some very long, scholarly books and articles for a living.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-33068906323346938462009-04-16T14:17:00.000-05:002009-04-16T14:17:00.000-05:00As a sociology graduate student in another, less p...As a sociology graduate student in another, less prestigious department some 80 blocks south of Venkatesh's department, I can tell you with some authority that within sociology, there has been some negative reaction to "Gang Leader." A good comparison would be to the work of Mitch Duneier's work on urban street life (he pays out royalties to the people whom he followed for "Sidewalk" for example, unlike Venkatesh who admits he does not have contact with his research participants) or perhaps David Brotherton's work on gangs (where he collaborated with leaders of the Latin Kings on writing that organization's history, and not only acknowledges their contribution, he too distributes royalties). Perhaps I am biased because both are members of my department, but most people I've talked to about Venkatesh bash his book, his research, his ethics, his everything. <br />Just as Humphrey's "Tea Room Trade" became the classic example of how NOT to conduct sociological research, Venkatesh is slowly becoming vilified as how NOT to do ethnography. The problem is, of course, that u-grads and grad students alike see how he "got away" with his work and then say "why can't i do that?" especially as your dissertation proposal winds its way through the ever slow IRB review. It is because he fails to follow ethical standards that we who are dedicated to the already dubious ethics of ethnography (with its history as a science of colonialism as a previous poster rightly pointed out) must suffer ever more. <br /><br />On the flip side, though, is the political split between the "prestigious" departments and the less prestigious departments. Sociology needs to waken to our Ivy bias, especially as the standards of research and rigor at Ivy league institutions crumble. There is also an increasing split between those doing more cultural studies oriented or sensitive work and those who continue in the same vein that produced showmen like Venkatesh. Because of this split and the continued Ivy bias, there has not been enough criticism of Venkatesh and his ilk. Hopefully the coming leadership of Patricia Hill Collins for the American Sociological Association will help to change that.Khttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15516778412252998682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-17053505210764529822009-04-11T12:34:00.000-05:002009-04-11T12:34:00.000-05:00And isn't it a little strong to accuse Venkatesh o...And isn't it a little strong to accuse Venkatesh of "stealing" the ideas of others? Do you have any real evidence of this? Can two researchers not arrive at the same conclusions independently?<BR/><BR/>And I never thought I'd see the day when you pointed to KC to justify yourself! Is he your role model now?JackDanielsBlackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285871354441074406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-59656960378577414662009-04-11T11:57:00.000-05:002009-04-11T11:57:00.000-05:00Ah, but Venkatesh in his title calls himsel a "rog...Ah, but Venkatesh in his title calls himsel a "rogue" sociologist, which I guess is sort of like being a tenured "radical" -- it gives you some leeway, no? And unlike Ward Churchill, Venkatesh is probably not a phony Indian.JackDanielsBlackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285871354441074406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-45465361702902499842009-04-11T10:44:00.000-05:002009-04-11T10:44:00.000-05:00Dear Jack:If there is sour grapes, I'll have to ta...Dear Jack:<BR/><BR/>If there is sour grapes, I'll have to take it to therapy -- but I don't think harsh critiques, which <A HREF="http://durhamwonderland.blogspot.com/2009/04/weekend-reading.html" REL="nofollow">this blogger</A>, for example, is famous for, must reflect envy. If it does, more than one commenter to this blog needs to take it to therapy too. Harsh critiques can be produced by contempt, or (gasp), genuine disagreement. And several social scientists have weighed in to these pages to say that the critique is correct, even when coming out of the mouth of pathetic little me.<BR/><BR/>I don't excuse Venkatesh for stealing ideas of other people and publishing them without attribution. You can't critique Ward Churchill and then excuse other people. Furthermore Venkatesh is not identifying as a novelist or a journalist: the subtitle clearly uses his academic creds to give the book authority. <BR/><BR/>I think the book is popular because it purports to give a privileged view into a community closed to many people; it makes the community look exciting in all the stereotypical ways; and it the end of hte book all these self-important black men are revealed as a bunch of losers. <BR/><BR/>But, y'know, MOO.Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-21484452617356055182009-04-11T09:08:00.000-05:002009-04-11T09:08:00.000-05:00I dunno, TR, it seems to me that Venkatesh put him...I dunno, TR, it seems to me that Venkatesh put himself at considerable personal risk to write this book, and that should count in his favor. Since the book is not a scholarly work, but a memoir/storytelling book, it seems to me that it should be judged based on the story it tells rather than by academic standards. It is really more like the book "The Corner" or the TV series "The Wire" than an academic treatise. And it is a well-written book; of the 74 Amazon reviews that are out there at the moment, 71 are favorable. And I agree with some of the other commenters--there is a whiff of sour grapes in your post.JackDanielsBlackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285871354441074406noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-89837463886868649482009-04-10T19:17:00.000-05:002009-04-10T19:17:00.000-05:00KS: Inter-Library Loan. Then your $ don't go to th...KS: Inter-Library Loan. Then your $ don't go to the publisher or author, and you support your ILL.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous: "...who apparently got someone dead."Diggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14851524413793098615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-12856454593125981132009-04-10T14:07:00.000-05:002009-04-10T14:07:00.000-05:00Anonymous:Not total obscurity. At least I'm not A...Anonymous:<BR/><BR/>Not total obscurity. At least I'm not Anonymous.Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-27404415602941077662009-04-10T12:43:00.000-05:002009-04-10T12:43:00.000-05:00Oh stop it TR, you're just jealous that Venkatesh ...Oh stop it TR, you're just jealous that Venkatesh is a full professor holding a named chair at an Ivy League institution, while you struggle in total obscurity. This man is a great sociologist and a pathbreaking researcher.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com