tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post8672019793096105028..comments2024-03-09T03:20:20.004-05:00Comments on Tenured Radical: Just Say No (But Not To Me): Achieving Balance in Your WorkTenured Radicalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-91583696100124777352009-12-11T02:53:55.085-05:002009-12-11T02:53:55.085-05:00Yeah quite good idea tarining people in the work d...Yeah quite good idea tarining people in the work done by us. I liked you post. It is really useful post for us.Watch Movieshttp://moviesplanet.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-72335830525068067502009-10-15T01:26:29.132-05:002009-10-15T01:26:29.132-05:00....I.e., finally: I agree with your solutions. B.......I.e., finally: I agree with your solutions. But the path of least resistance for administrators is to keep asking the competent.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-86633521332387905562009-10-15T01:22:51.911-05:002009-10-15T01:22:51.911-05:00...And of course, lest we go down the path of sayi......And of course, lest we go down the path of saying those able to use the "excuse" of kids are privileged, I will say that yes, parenthood is a privilege, but those without kids (myself included) often WILDLY underestimate the burden. I was the person to complain LOUDLY about my parent-colleagues "whining".... until I became one (and still do a ****load of service, research, and teaching, and "can't say no"). When you rankle at the parent excuse, think: if you had a colleague who was caring for an infirm partner, would you give them a break? Ultimately, I want to avoid that line of argument. Ultimately, to paraphrase/badly quote Cheryl Clarke in This Bridge, let's stop fighting for our place at the bottom, because there isn't enough room. Let's all find a way to say "no" that is related to our work expectations--then no one will have to appeal to extra-work excuses to have lives and breathing room.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-48957266157254646142009-10-15T01:11:05.787-05:002009-10-15T01:11:05.787-05:00Fascinating post. Having read all of these commen...Fascinating post. Having read all of these comments through, I must say I am somewhat befuddled by TR's anger at PF, but think that it is evidence of the divisiveness that comes from the very unreasonable expectations placed on "team-playing" faculty (of whom a majority are women). I think that a lot of people, parents or otherwise, TR, are taking issue with that line of your post because children really for many are a way of claiming a "life," of saying"no" in a way that at least some people will listen to. And a lot of those people who use their kids to claim a "life" are still pulling a heavy load. 80% of our (R1, large) department's administrative posts are held by parents of children under the age of 10. I'd add that currently that same 80% are women. I sat on a salary review committee and discovered (surprise, surprise) that the majority of service is done by early- and mid-career women. I think the earlier comment that this is about women rings true for many of us. That is not to say that male colleagues do not pull their load, but that many of them are *not asked to*. I remember being told that one of my colleagues "couldn't" do some service job "because he was focused on his research program." I was asked to do that service job. We were both pre-tenure, both writing our books. I've published as much as he has. I have done at least twice as much service. WTF? <br /><br />The reward for good work is more work. The answer? Strategic incompetence. Burn the dinner and no one asks you to cook. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-79553200393979065002009-10-03T15:00:44.974-05:002009-10-03T15:00:44.974-05:00I like your description of the intentionally incom...I like your description of the intentionally incompetent. There is clearly a self-reinforcing symmetry breaking that occurs when people start out as faculty members.<br /><br />Those who are naturally conscientious, organized, and who care about the success of the larger entities around them--departments, programs, schools, institutions, professional societies, etc--gravitate towards service because they are good at it and find it personally rewarding. Those who are naturally lazy, disorganized, and selfish gravitate away from service, leaving more of it to the former group.<br /><br />In terms of the mechanics of saying no and the social process of allocating service effort, I think the best way to arrange these things is to create an institutional culture where "excuses" are neither sought nor offered. If you are carrying your weight, then no excuse is needed to say no to additional duties. And if you are not carrying your weight, then no excuse suffices.<br /><br />Eliminating the culture of excuse eliminates the calculus of competing excuses.Comrade PhysioProfhttp://physioprof.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-39577850655442521502009-10-03T01:11:52.995-05:002009-10-03T01:11:52.995-05:00or, as PlainsFeminist primly corrected me, have ha...<i>or, as PlainsFeminist primly corrected me, have had the privilege of not choosing) a hetero- or homonormative family structure</i><br /><br />I didn't say that.<br /><br />I said that not everyone has the privilege of choosing to have or not have children. That is not quite the same thing.Plain(s)feministhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056404699624958898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-2709258880675422822009-09-27T09:11:55.835-05:002009-09-27T09:11:55.835-05:00Barren? What an odious term to use for the child-...Barren? What an odious term to use for the child-free.Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-20930165266489627282009-09-21T08:23:16.509-05:002009-09-21T08:23:16.509-05:00Let me also say that all the laziest people in my ...Let me also say that all the laziest people in my department--without exception--are either old men or the barren of either gender.<br /><br />When my barren colleagues complain about their impossible schedules, I just laugh inwardly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-59686642979867234622009-09-18T15:41:51.539-05:002009-09-18T15:41:51.539-05:00What kind of "radical" would attack work...<i> What kind of "radical" would attack working parents trying to balance home life and work life? </i><br /><br />Indeed. Radicals are well known for their temperance and unwillingness to provoke the innocent as they pursue intelligent discussion of structural issues. Shame, shame.<br /><br />OK, enough of my humor. It's caused enough trouble.<br /><br />First thought. Just because Plain(s) Feminist said I was attacking a whole category of workers doesn't mean I was; I continue to maintain that I was not. That is her opinion, and I disagree with her that my post was parentophobic because I merely referred to a parallel situation that exists alongside the difficulties faced by working parents: the schedules of parents tend to be respected; the schedules of single people and the childless are assumed to be flexible. Both things can be true, and I don't see why some parents refuse to get this. Single people don't love it when coupled people claim they must defer to a spouse's schedule in arranging their worklives; the childless resent it when they are told that a colleague must always do x for a child because a spouse's schedule "isn't flexible like mine is." I cannot tell you how often I have heard that. And why is hir schedule flexible? Because the childless have no equally virtuous and inviolable excuse, and their arms can be more easily twisted.<br /><br />I would like to point out (again) that I qualified my (brief) statement about using one's child as an excuse. I said that most parents are hard working and responsible and do not use their children to dodge work. Furthermore, a critical reading of the post reveals that other categories of folk (such as tenured people) come in for greater criticism.<br /><br />Siva notes that I was snide. That is true, and probably at the heart of the matter here. I find it difficult to resist being snide, and if I were Rachel Maddow everyone would love me for it. And yet, because one's friends can always be relied upon for honesty I must admit error here. But readers, be honest: it is not that what I said is categorically untrue. It is the contempt for parenting as a praxis that you <i>inferred</i> from it, and the sexist stigma that has always dogged women workers that is at issue. Snideness does leave me open to the misinterpretation that it is I, not centuries of patriarchy, that am responsible for applying that stigma to hard-working women, so I must admit error here as well. <br /><br />To go a little deeper as to where my snideness may have come from, (I am in therapy after all): the assumption that childless people are always available causes great resentment too, and sometimes infers contempt for those who have not chosen (or, as PlainsFeminist primly corrected me, have had the privilege of not choosing) a hetero- or homonormative family structure. As one homonormative colleague, en route to baby #1 said to me once with great and sincere curiosity: "What do couples even talk about after ten years if they don't have children?" That you, dear reader, do not feel that contempt towards me makes this condition for the childless no less pervasive. Perhaps those who are *not* childless have never experienced the expectation that their needs and desires are less important than those who have children, just as the childless have not experienced the nature of your burdens? <br /><br />Another thought: the politics of this discussion. Since when did it become ok to say that (drumroll) <i>men</i> can be categorically critiqued for dodging labor (this is a theme that goes relatively unquestioned around the blogosphere, and in these comments, and I see no one leaping to the defence of "men") but parents are categorically exempt from scrutiny no matter what? If parents are always given the benefit of the doubt, even when they are people who behaved the same way when childless, then everyone should be exempt from scrutiny.Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-28597378000266661922009-09-18T13:19:18.872-05:002009-09-18T13:19:18.872-05:00Good post, except for the part about parents and k...Good post, except for the part about parents and kids. What kind of "radical" would attack working parents trying to balance home life and work life? The issue, ultimately, is childcare, which universities and colleges (and other work places), should provide as a discounted or free on-site (or nearby) service. It would increase productivity and allow working parents flexibility--and the ability to properly interact with their children during the day. <br /><br />This is way more complicated than you portray it: the increase in homes with two working parents (or single parent homes), hard economic times demanding more and more time at work, etc....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-40431944953296606052009-09-18T11:43:45.355-05:002009-09-18T11:43:45.355-05:00Great post & discussion (and I'll even ign...Great post & discussion (and I'll even ignore the slams against parents from the childless), but I wanted to get at what I think are some of the dynamics of the unequal workload spread.<br /><br />When I began a TT job, I went ahead and said "yes" to everything, assuming that this would create general goodwill and demonstrate my usefulness. Probably like most of us.<br /><br />But here's what really happens, I think: by saying "yes" to something, you create an impression not that you're taking one for the team but that you really don't mind doing the thing you've agreed to do. And so, hey, why not ask you again next time? There's no memory that you might have complained, that you pleaded not to have to do this again until after the book was out, etc.<br /><br />The best strategy, for me, is in a way to give in to this assumption: to say "yes" to the extra things I actually *don't* mind doing all that much, since I won't get *any* extra karma from taking on the tasks that I find least rewarding and most burdensome. If I feel I need to explain why I can't take on more--I can at least point to what I am doing.<br /><br />Also, it helps to be tenured now.Anonymoosenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-29890667000285134362009-09-18T08:25:23.115-05:002009-09-18T08:25:23.115-05:00I really dug your workload essay and passed it on ...I really dug your workload essay and passed it on to many junior colleagues. <br /><br />I do hope you consider qualifying one point, though. On the time-management burdens of caring for young children, you seemed unnecessarily flippant and derisive. The crack about "You get someone to help you navigate the nursing home" was not helpful. And it alienates those of us who had children for quite different reasons: because we would like to help them navigate the world to a better place. <br /><br />Certainly, you are taxed to care for others' children. It's not just the service time at work. It's the school taxes you pay and the health insurance you pay for but use far less than people with children do. In fact, you pay a substantial amount of time and money to support the continuation of the species. And we should be more grateful to you. <br /><br />But if we were in Europe your tax would be even higher -- literally. Yet in Europe, it's clear, the childless benefit even more from having healthy, happy children in their societies. When children are young, healthy, working adults subsidize their welfare. When adults grow old, the former children subsidize their welfare. It's not only a really good system. It's the only reasonable system.<br /><br />Even over here, some day someone will have to pay for your nursing home, hospice, Medicaid, and social security. Only the rich among us can shoulder the costs of old age without help. It's not "the government" that takes care of us when we are old. It's the working adults of the world -- those former children whom you helped care for, feed, and educate through your time and money.<br /><br />So while your point is well taken, the target of your complaints should not be parents of young children. As you wrote, we do not retreat from service labor equally. But let's be clear. We all have a stake in the well being of every child, whether we asked for them or not.Siva Vaidhyanathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03543025295806905985noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-68045774382756057062009-09-17T10:12:06.861-05:002009-09-17T10:12:06.861-05:00To get back on track: women faculty are, in my ex...To get back on track: women faculty are, in my experience and observation, routinely expected to do considerably more service than men, with fewer rewards. At my institution, once gaining tenure a man is automatically either (a) excused from toil or (b) given admin tasks with power over other people. Tenured women, myself included, toil as subordinates and order-takers. Same phenomenon at other schools. If I started to say no more often, I'd instantly be labeled difficult, selfish, arrogant, a prima donna, on and on.LadyProfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-38495512538910087592009-09-17T07:42:22.602-05:002009-09-17T07:42:22.602-05:00TR, if you think PF "bullied" you, you n...TR, if you think PF "bullied" you, you need to get out more. To use a word like that for a couple of para's of civil discourse suggests, perhaps unfairly, that you do not know what bullying is. I doubt that, but why take the chance?davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-27893148902463601932009-09-13T16:10:58.800-05:002009-09-13T16:10:58.800-05:00Gayprof:
I steal them and then I sell them to clo...Gayprof:<br /><br />I steal them and then I sell them to cloning centers.Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-74266378880315086082009-09-13T15:59:11.406-05:002009-09-13T15:59:11.406-05:00"Soon" is worse than "No." As..."Soon" is worse than "No." As a grad Student I had a professor repeatedly say they would read my dissertation proposal and consider serving on my committee "soon." I wasted an entire semester regularly, politely asking them is they had read it yet. Meanwhile, i'm paying tuition and falling behind.<br /><br />They never did get to it and I began the next semester seeking a different member.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-22090218646264620052009-09-13T13:52:50.492-05:002009-09-13T13:52:50.492-05:00Oh, I love the quote out of context game! Here is...Oh, I love the quote out of context game! Here is what <i>I</i> heard from Tenured Radical:<br /><br /><i>I . . .would. . . steal a child.</i><br /><br />What??? You are planning on stealing children. Really, Tenured Radical, have you no shame??GayProfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11289510184782252498noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-41050709131599811972009-09-13T10:46:54.993-05:002009-09-13T10:46:54.993-05:00So, to be clear:
You can make any comment you lik...So, to be clear:<br /><br />You can make any comment you like about any group of people, but if they don't like it and say so, they are being narcissistic. I've left, now, 3 of 46 comments (including this one) and you say I've "filled up your blog."<br /><br />Just for the record, I do not believe, nor have I ever said in the comments here or in any of my own posts on parenting, that "parenthood is always a privileged status".<br /><br />But, you've already ended the conversation, which is an effective way to shut someone up who doesn't agree with you.Plain(s)feministhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056404699624958898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-80501582579550684452009-09-13T00:26:08.848-05:002009-09-13T00:26:08.848-05:00Anonymous: you are so right about that rhetorical...Anonymous: you are so right about that rhetorical flourish, but that's what writers do - it's called style. Being a misanthrope about the glories of child rearing isn't an open invitation to berate me. PF can be as pissed off as she likes, but it doesn't make her right, nor does it justify putting motherhood front, line and center in comments about a post that wasn't about motherhood. Her narcissism is pissing *me* off.<br /><br />My last comment on this, Plain(s) feminist, is that you shouldn't apologize when you clearly believe you have nothing to apologize for. The nerve you touched is touched is not about the children I didn't have, or even your presumptuousness that I have had the "privilege" to choose not to have them. The nerve you touched is activated when someone insists that her own point of view is the exclusively correct one, fills up my blog with it, and behaves as though others who do not share her belief that parenthood is always a privileged status they need to be forcefully enlightened until they do.<br /><br />And I don't *feel* bullied: I feel pissed off at you because you bullied me .Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-90625371538522869912009-09-12T22:22:06.720-05:002009-09-12T22:22:06.720-05:00Plain(s) Feminist: Do you have the slightest idea ...<i>Plain(s) Feminist: Do you have the slightest idea what a bullying and myopic comment this is? Or that by taking my words out of context you have utterly altered their meaning?</i><br /><br />I don't believe I have either taken your words out of context or altered their meaning. You felt that people were "obsessing" about this issue. I think the reason is because that small part of your post was offensive. I get that you don't think so, but that doesn't mean that it isn't.<br /><br /><i>Or how unbelievably intolerant you sound?</i><br />If that's true, then I apologize. I don't believe that to be the case. You used a generalization, and again, a particularly sensitive negative stereotype. And then you wondered why people were talking so much about this issue, and you appeared to dismiss any concerns by implying that the parents who were raising them (and I don't think all of them are parents) were hogging the discussion or selfishly focusing it to their own ends.<br /><br /><i>And no, I'm really not worried about the people who haven't had the "privilege" of choosing not to have children. I think that is utterly asinine, and for all you know I am completely sterile and would have had to adopt or steal a child.</i><br /><br />Your earlier comment certainly implied that you made a conscious choice not to be a parent:<br /><i>Having children and holding down a full-time academic job is a huge burden: I recognize that. It's one of the reasons why I didn't have children.</i><br />This is the comment that I was responding to when I said that not everyone gets to choose not to have children. I have heard a lot of people say that they made choices not to have children and should therefore not have to deal with the fallout from other people's choices to have children. I thought that you were saying something along those lines. My comment obviously struck a nerve with you, and I'm sorry for that. However, there indeed are, whether or not you want to accept it, plenty of women who did not get to choose not to have children (just as there are plenty of women who did not get to choose to have children). Maybe you don't know that you know any in the former category, but I do.<br /><br />In any case, I'm sorry that I caused you to feel bullied. That was not my intent.<br /><br />Thank you, Anonymous.Plain(s)feministhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056404699624958898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-65369201679057132042009-09-12T21:29:46.631-05:002009-09-12T21:29:46.631-05:00Please don't be so hard on Plain(s) Feminist, ...Please don't be so hard on Plain(s) Feminist, TR. She has many a point, and this is not the first time that I have noticed an embedded segment in one of your posts with the following kind of progression, which is exactly what pissed P(s) feminist off:<br />a) "now don't get me wrong, I like population subgroup X"<br />b) some of my best friends are "population subgroup X"<br />c) but the premises under which some of population subgroup X operates are asinine (sometime this conclusion is not directly stated but is rather implied)<br /><br />P(s)Feminist raises some very good points that the childfree among us might do well to try to understand.<br /><br />And she is right. For those of use who have trouble saying no, and then who resent those who are able to (for whatever reason), we had better figure out how to do so before we blow our stacks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-24196591122139870892009-09-12T20:30:18.099-05:002009-09-12T20:30:18.099-05:00Plain(s) Feminist: Do you have the slightest idea...Plain(s) Feminist: Do you have the slightest idea what a bullying and myopic comment this is? Or that by taking my words out of context you have utterly altered their meaning? Or how unbelievably intolerant you sound? If you are going to go berserk over a couple lines in a multi-paragraph post that you don't find supportive, why not throw out the Bible because Leviticus sucks eggs too?<br /><br />And no, I'm really not worried about the people who haven't had the "privilege" of choosing not to have children. I think that is utterly asinine, and for all you know I am completely sterile and would have had to adopt or steal a child.Tenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-157033798236950842009-09-12T13:16:14.652-05:002009-09-12T13:16:14.652-05:00the comments section is once again obsessing about...<i>the comments section is once again obsessing about everyone's children. This, my friends, is what the childless and those who go to great expense and trouble to secure adequate childcare, are talking about.</i><br /><br />...and why is that? Because what you wrote in your post the most negative, harmful, and misleading stereotypes about parents in the work force:<br /><i>At the risk of annoying the hard-working parents who do come to work and carry a fair load with the rest of us, I need to ask: if you have a child and I don't, and we get paid the same salary, why am I doing your work for you? I didn't have children because I wanted the time: instead, I got no child and I got no time.</i><br /><br />What you wrote in your comments, in which you admitted that most parents pull their own weight and allowed that men are often the ones using their children as an excuse, does not come through in your post at all. As an academic mother, I read along, nodding my head, until I got to the part where you sucker-punched me.<br /><br />(You also completely ignore in your post the fact that many, many women do not get to make the choices about having children that you (and I) have had the luxury of making.)<br /><br />It's funny; many of my colleagues have been mothers, and together, we have managed to pull our weight and to help out each other with emergency child care so that we could teach 9am or evening classes. Most of these were adjuncts because most academic mothers are adjuncts. This should suggest a larger problem with the system, a problem that you have analyzed very nicely with the exception of your "blame it on the parents" moment.<br /><br />When I think of the colleagues and teachers I have had who have underperformed and encouraged, through incompetence, their students to find other advisors, these have not been people with children. The faculty members I have known who did not show up for office hours did not have children. The faculty members I have known who did not serve on committees did not have children.<br /><br />Does this mean that you never get to criticise those parents who don't pull their weight? Of course not. But what you wrote in your initial post was offensive, and instead of accepting that you, perhaps unwittingly, jumped into a very sensitive and longstanding, heated debate, you instead implied that your commenters' "obsession" with this issue was selfish and myopic.<br /><br />What you state as your real question - <i>how would you say no to excess work on your own behalf, not on behalf of your child?</i> - continues to assume that parents are doing something wrong, already. Isn't the real question, simply, "how would you say no to excess work?" And what's wrong with, "I am just swamped - I'm sorry"? Or, "You know, I really need to prioritize in order to get this book done, so I'm going to have to say no. I'm so sorry."?<br /><br />The question isn't how to say no. It's how to feel *comfortable* saying no.Plain(s)feministhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15056404699624958898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-507681826526660942009-09-10T23:35:17.370-05:002009-09-10T23:35:17.370-05:00I'd echo ADM's point, and say that situati...I'd echo ADM's point, and say that situations vary from institution to institution and department to department.<br /><br />I can imagine, for example, places less research-oriented than Zenith where the primary split isn't between people who try to balance their research with service load and people who shirk the service to keep researching. Lower down the food chain, the problem can easily become that the people who don't do much service also don't have much of a research agenda either. (I've heard such places described to me, in horrifying detail.) <br /><br />And in some such places, there is no real leverage. After all, the merit pay (however it's sliced) is seldom much considering the work involved. A secure salary and cost of living increases for what's in effect a reduced workload might seem more attractive than working 25 more hours a week to get a $1500 raise (or simply a *chance* at such a raise).Doctor Clevelandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07326408523926507003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-38377062428723609422009-09-10T22:44:43.692-05:002009-09-10T22:44:43.692-05:00As I mentioned at Dr. Crazy's blog, I wonder h...As I mentioned at Dr. Crazy's blog, I wonder how much of this differs between R1s and 'teaching' institutions. For example, I *am* a chair, and I have absolutely no control or leverage, except perhaps for allocating budget monies. But because there are only four people in my department, I would be foolish to be vindictive with that, because I won't always be chair. <br /><br />My institution doesn't do merit increases. We all get the same COLA every year. People seldom change offices, because there would have to be office space available to move people to! Teaching loads are all the same. I suppose that people could get less travel support, but that's shooting everybody in the foot, isn't it?Another Damned Medievalisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05231085915472400163noreply@blogger.com