tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post2349856941357774831..comments2024-03-09T03:20:20.004-05:00Comments on Tenured Radical: And Here's A Little Coal In Your Christmas Stocking: Tenure DeniedTenured Radicalhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-70259948589011398442008-12-27T08:36:00.000-05:002008-12-27T08:36:00.000-05:00I'm really late to this too but I have a question ...I'm really late to this too but I have a question that would require another post to address, if you are amenable. What to do when you have a colleague you really don't think is tenure worthy? Someone who seems to put little effort into teaching, which she seems to dislike, does very little writing, which doesn't seem to be very good either, and does almost no service, in part because she is both lazy and annoying so no one wants to work with her. Our standards are pretty low and we hate confrontation, so she will probably get tenure, and then do even less work at a job she already treats as part time. Advice?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-58973955142118693772008-12-19T09:34:00.000-05:002008-12-19T09:34:00.000-05:00I'm at a unionized campus - AFT. Our contracts run...I'm at a unionized campus - AFT. Our contracts run for 5 years. Tenure procedures and very general criteria are specified in the contract and each department has to rewrite its "Application of the Criteria" with a new contract. People within two years of tenure are grandfathered under the criteria of the contract in force when they were hired.<BR/><BR/>We rewrote our criteria last year. Dean and Provost had to approve them but their suggestions were negotiated with departments and not simply inserted.<BR/><BR/>The publication requirement has increased but only lightly, and it is clearly quantified.<BR/><BR/>A negative recommendation from any level of evaluation is automatically appealed to both college and university personnel committees.<BR/><BR/>btw, In this university, you can be denied retention or tenure or promotion because of inadequate service as well as inadequate scholarship.<BR/><BR/>It won't help the person in question but organizing in whatever ways a department or other unit can is the most important thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-61373878913050493152008-12-19T07:56:00.000-05:002008-12-19T07:56:00.000-05:00TR -- well said. (And sorry to be so late to the ...TR -- well said. (And sorry to be so late to the discussion!)<BR/><BR/>As you know, I'm no fan of the tenure system. But to the extent that it's a given, anyone denied tenure should at least look at the local grievance policies.<BR/><BR/>Lawsuits are much trickier. From this side of the desk, and I'm not proud of this, an applicant who was suing a former employer based on a tenure denial is simply radioactive. No way, no how would I hire that person. Not. Gonna. Happen. Why? Because I know how that person will behave when things don't go hir way. <BR/><BR/>In my observation, cases like these rarely pit 'completely right' against 'completely wrong.' (I'm also largely unpersuaded by departmental votes, simply because I've seen departments vote to pass the buck, hoping to be overturned, so someone else will be the bad guy but the problem will still go away.) More often, they're quagmires of failure all around, and the best response from my end is simply to avoid them in the first place. No, that's not always fair, but I'd be insane not to tend to my own, and my college's own, self-preservation.<BR/><BR/>If the internal grievance doesn't work, and there isn't some demonstrable (and egregious!) violation of law, move on. Bad judgment is hurtful, but not illegal.Dean Dadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04956229655057842122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-67251602656887398192008-12-18T16:12:00.000-05:002008-12-18T16:12:00.000-05:00I find it absurd that colleges do not have a simpl...I find it absurd that colleges do not have a simple procedure in place - department guidelines are written down; and if they are changed (or the bar is raised, so to speak); then the people who are already there untenured are judged according to the guidelines under which they were hired. I mean, it makes sense - you don't change the rules once the game is in play. Its how we do it my place, and I think its quite reasonable.libwitchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13507087121268564423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-69932864571605841092008-12-17T20:57:00.000-05:002008-12-17T20:57:00.000-05:00Dear 8:44 --No, that's not what I said, you thin-s...Dear 8:44 --<BR/><BR/>No, that's not what I said, you thin-skinned wonder.<BR/><BR/>TRTenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-28817535344581739182008-12-17T20:44:00.000-05:002008-12-17T20:44:00.000-05:00Ah. So men should not care for children. And men...Ah. So men should not care for children. And men with children do not have aged parents to care for. Now I understand. Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-50562234080257432802008-12-17T08:51:00.000-05:002008-12-17T08:51:00.000-05:00For those of us at teaching colleges, maybe tenure...For those of us at teaching colleges, maybe tenure isn't the only solution, but in a right-to-work state it is the only solution at the moment. <BR/><BR/>According to our handbook, without tenure we can be fired without cause. You can be an excellent teacher, but still be fired.<BR/><BR/>As an activist in the community, as a lesbian, as someone who challenges the administration, I would soon lose my job if I did not have tenure.Sweddyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10509067868943775929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-47084571961149985892008-12-15T00:10:00.000-05:002008-12-15T00:10:00.000-05:00In my mind this example speaks to an important lar...In my mind this example speaks to an important larger question: what role does tenure have at teaching institutions? In my understand, tenure is at its heart a guarantor of Academic Freedom. But if the expectations for scholarship are low or non-existent at such an institution, why have tenure at all?<BR/><BR/>I imagine that one possible reason is to protect academic freedom in the classroom. While this is certainly worthy, I would imagine that allowing a teaching institution the ability to fire ineffective teachers would be more important.Bradley Spahnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05745989174462907261noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-56804761364430597202008-12-14T19:27:00.000-05:002008-12-14T19:27:00.000-05:00Just to clarify - i suspect you are talking to sev...Just to clarify - i suspect you are talking to several different "anonymous" readers here. I wrote the first comment/question about baby leave and was happy with your response. I didn't write any of the follow-up comments.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-87137426686423757712008-12-14T13:45:00.000-05:002008-12-14T13:45:00.000-05:00Dear Anonymous,There is clearly something I have t...Dear Anonymous,<BR/><BR/>There is clearly something I have tapped into here that I wish I hadn't: if you look at the quote in context parental leave is but one part of that 'graph. As for the "bitchy woman" it was a way to talk about how gender blind policies disproportionately benefit men (partly in the way you say in the last comment), but also to acknowledge that women are fully capable of walking away from institutional work and dumping it on other women. It was also supposed to be <I>funny</I>, ok? Maybe we don't share the same sense of humor: that happens regularly to those of us with acerbic tongues, so I'm sorry if I upset you. Really.<BR/><BR/>And if you really want to get into it about parental leave: those of us who are childless, but also feminist, spend a lot of time gritting our teeth about the benefits that accrue to people with children -- tuition benefits worth over $100K *per kid* at my institution, for example, more spacious apartments in university housing -- as well as time off to care for the dependent darlings that we who spend time taking care of other dependent people (aging parents, friends, siblings, partners and other people who matter to us) have no access to. So while I understand the difficulties of motherhood on the tenure track are a huge and important topic, where many gender inequalities play out, like many things associated with "normal" families, I think a queer intervention could help us think a little bigger.<BR/><BR/>TRTenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-33626233363496096912008-12-14T13:00:00.000-05:002008-12-14T13:00:00.000-05:00because we've all seen cases where women return fr...because we've all seen cases where women return from maternity leave, exhausted, given more service work, and then don't get tenure. whereas we see men who return from paternity leave and brag about having completed the grant proposal/article/book etc- ie they get work done during the leave, usually because they weren't in fact the `primary caregiver'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-30132694454186445472008-12-14T12:29:00.000-05:002008-12-14T12:29:00.000-05:00thanks for the clarification re: paternity leave a...thanks for the clarification re: paternity leave as a "dig aimed at "sexism." why then describe the dept.'s evildoers as men (quite simply, no other descriptive tags) and a "bitchy" woman?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-67239810655925470992008-12-14T01:45:00.000-05:002008-12-14T01:45:00.000-05:00Dear Anonymous 10:2 -Your advice is usually sound ...Dear Anonymous 10:2 -<BR/><BR/><I>Your advice is usually sound - so I'm curious about your decision to criticize baby leave as an avoidance of department duties.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't think this at all, and I apologize if my cynicism appeared to undermine this difficult dilemma -- my comment was specifically aimed at how praised *men* are for taking time off to care for their babies, and that the opposite is true for women. Men are viewed as modern, empathetic, yadayada, women are viewed as unserious about their careers. So the dig was aimed at sexism, not parenting on the tenure track more generall.<BR/><BR/>best,<BR/><BR/>TRTenured Radicalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05703980598547163290noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-67354075093440532992008-12-13T22:52:00.000-05:002008-12-13T22:52:00.000-05:00I appreciate this blog and this post. I was a bit ...I appreciate this blog and this post. I was a bit surprised at the dig at paternity leave though. Can you explain? The impression I have is that taking maternity leave increases the chances of a denial of tenure creating a situation where many individuals (really, women) feel pressured to choose between parenthood and career during their early tenure-track years. Those I know have scheduled their desire for children around their careers, rather than using paternity/maternity leave to build up their publishing records. I'm concerned about your comment because I would like to see our colleges/universities become more friendly culturally and institutionally to women who chose to have children. That is, I'd like to see friends feel safe taking the maternity leave they deserve and need - rather than deciding to wait a year if baby can't be born in June. Your advice is usually sound - so I'm curious about your decision to criticize baby leave as an avoidance of department duties.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-10082586138591012692008-12-13T20:10:00.000-05:002008-12-13T20:10:00.000-05:00She is not even guaranteed a year after tenure is ...<I>She is not even guaranteed a year after tenure is denied to stay and apply for jobs.</I><BR/><BR/>That's just absurd: nobody in that situation should apply for tenure without simultaneously applying for jobs elsewhere, which is not the message the institution should be sending. (it also gives a bad impression to your evaluators, many of whom still consider "loyalty" a significant factor in evaluating candidates, without considering that it should go both ways.)Ahistoricalityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04004964192885891003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36212542.post-46844084157648351052008-12-13T18:54:00.000-05:002008-12-13T18:54:00.000-05:00I am remaining anonymous because this is my instit...I am remaining anonymous because this is my institution.<BR/><BR/>I am grateful for TR's advice. Thank you.<BR/><BR/>Here is the how-things-are-very-different-at-Wuzzup-from-how-they-are-at-Zenith addendum:<BR/><BR/>My colleague still has an appeal left to the president, which she is going to take. She is already looking at the possibility of having to move away. She is not even guaranteed a year after tenure is denied to stay and apply for jobs. I will support her in any way I can while she goes through this.<BR/><BR/>This is why I called a second colleague this morning, because they way things work here is that a few people have the president's ear and they can change his mind. It has happened before. Colleague #2 has agreed to do this. <BR/><BR/>It may be hard for many people to imagine what this is like, but we now have a completely flat structure. There is the faculty and there is the top administration, and there are no layers. (No deans, despite the changes in the story for which I am grateful.) The handbook has been changed to take away all power from the faculty, and all the AAUP members' appeals to reconsider the changes have been laughed away.<BR/><BR/>I am taking TR's advice. I am staying quiet at the moment to see if strategy #1 works: have the one person to whom the administration listens try to work some magic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com